White Americans, anyway. That seems to be the result from this poll at Daily Kos (via Tom Levenson’s Twitter feed).
Research 2000 for Daily Kos. 7/27-30. Likely voters. MoE 2% (No trend lines)
Do you believe that America and Africa were once part of the same continent?
Yes No Not Sure
All 42 26 32
Dem 51 16 33
Rep 24 47 29
Ind 44 23 33Northeast 50 18 32
South 32 37 31
Midwest 46 22 32
West 43 24 33White 35 30 35
Black 63 13 24
Latino 55 19 26
Other 56 19 25
Probably readers of this blog are not a representative sample of Americans, and most or you — even the white people! — know that Pangaea was the supercontinent that existed about 250 million years ago, before plate tectonics worked its magic and broke it apart.
Now, some of my best friends are white folks, so I don’t want to make any grand generalizations about their intelligence or education. But this is a good illustration of a point made by Jerry Coyne — the problem of scientific illiteracy is not a simple one, and in particular it’s not just a matter of better outreach and more Carl Sagans. Which is not to say that more and better outreach and science journalism isn’t important or useful — it clearly is, and I’m in favor of making structural changes to provide much better incentives for making sure that it happens. But there are also factors at work for which outreach isn’t the answer — political and social forces that push people away from science. Those have to be confronted if we want to really address the problem.
(I don’t know who was the mischievous person who thought of asking this poll question in the first place, but it was an inspired idea.)
Update: Aaron Golas in comments points to a post by Devilstower laying out that the question was worded in an intentionally provocative way, to illustrate how bad questions can fail to correctly gauge scientific understanding. Which is completely true, and a point worth making. But I argue that the poll does reveal something, namely the extent to which underlying cultural attitudes can influence one’s stance toward purportedly scientific questions. Thus, “White People Have Trouble Accepting Pangaea,” not “White People Don’t Know About Pangaea.” As a measure of what percentage of Americans truly understand continental drift, the poll is pretty useless; as an indication of how culture affects that understanding, it’s very illuminating.
The poll doesn’t make sense. I would understand it if native Americans had a problem with that but white Americans are European emigrants. Why they would even care?
On the other hand if they just wanted to measure any hidden racism in America they could simply ask: Do you believe that the origin of human species is in Africa?
As someone who is simultaneously non-American, and North American, I note that the claim is false. America is a country that has only existed since 1776, and at no time in its existence was it part of a continent that also contained Africa. NORTH America is a continent as is Africa, and these two continents formed from a previously existing continent we call Pangaea. Only an American would refer to North America as America. Just last week, I caught a New Scientist website labeling a location in Alberta as being part of the US. ( the spot on the map was clearly above the 49th parallel) If science journalists can’t tell the difference between North America and America…God help us.
Xalem, there is a bit of the U.S. north of the 49th parallel which is contiguous with Manitoba: the Northwest Angle.
Prem, it’s not necessarily wrong to accept a claim on authority. An understanding of the scientific process, mainly that it’s ideologically neutral and self correcting, is enough to conclude that whatever the consensus is in a field is probably correct. Enough so that I can say it’s true, provisionally speaking only, but that also applies to the subjects I do know. It’s a case where the conclusions of the experts in the field become the default position. It’s a stretch to say I should withhold judgement until I understand it myself. I’ve always pointed out the value of ‘withholding judgement’ on subjects that nobody really knows about, like the existence of extraterrestrial life for example, but that doesn’t mean to withhold judgement on things simply because I myself don’t understand them. That’s dangerously close to an argument from personal incredulity/ignorance.
There is only a little merit in the comments here on pros and cons of the survey. Most commenters are dancing around the core insight – which is perhaps more about Republicans than white people, once you realize their greater numbers among whites. Yadda yadda, people may be confused over Pangea as a whole v. “America” and Africa, “America” can mean either the nation or the continent, some white people are scared about America-Africa connections, etc. (But that bit about 1776 – hey, the correct name for this nation is “The United States of America” and a person should appreciate that it also refers to a land mass. And I saw the sample size, it was around 1,000 and big enough.) All that tap dancing, but folks: how come all those Democrats and black people correctly got the point, and didn’t get confused about nations versus continents, etc. – and so many whites/ and Republicans didn’t? If that is more about prejudice than science education, well that still tells us something worth knowing anyway – it doesn’t make the poll “bad.”
I think Devilstower had it all wrong. The question wasn’t silly and was not âintentionally idioticâ, the results of the poll did not “appear different from what we would expect in an honest analysis and enable one to manipulate the public opinion by showing results that are not.” It was an honest analysis. It just showed us another parameter. If it showed that certain groups can’t accept the connection between America and Africa, that is what we learn. So then don’t call it, “know”, and Sean got it right in the title. Like I said, that all those people *can’t accept* the continental connection is bad enough, maybe worse, than if they didn’t realize it. Time to face the implications and do some soul-(or intellect)-searching.
According to Sagan’s biography, one of his old friends said, “You only meet people like Carl, maybe, once every two generations.” Current events appear to match the historical conditions at Sagan’s birth. Maybe he’s already among us. đź
(I fear I’ll regret making that comment when some nut takes it seriously and accuses me and everyone here of worshiping Sagan.)
Good point Bad Jim. The Northwest angle is the northern bit of America that isn’t Alaska. It is in the Lake-of-the-Woods area. I have been to the Canadian side of that lake (Kenora area). It is beautiful. It is not terribly far from the geographic center of North America, (which is in North Dakota). (I remember pumping water for sheep that had strayed into the tourist area there) …wait, what were we talking about again?
It’s probably not wrong to ascribe to racism the refusal of 3/4 of Southern whites to accept Obama’s legitimacy, but that so many could hold such a view in the face of overwhelming evidence shouldn’t be surprising. The average person regards scientific claims as the views of one authority and not necessarily superior to those of other authorities, and doesn’t necessarily notice when different claims conflict.
There’s a bit of a pedagogical paradox involved in teaching that arguments from authority are illegitimate to students who have yet to master algebra. Too many are likely to conclude that all beliefs are equally valid. That probably isn’t the attitude we’re confronting in this case, but the epistemology in evidence is not much more robust: Rush or my pastor said it, and I trust them more than some pointy-headed professor in a lab coat.
The post arguing against this poll would be a lot more convincing if it presented examples of how to do better.
It is my opinion that it is criminally insane to have self-identified ‘race’ as a question in such a survey.
Why on earth would a person’s self-proclaimed ‘race’ (whatever the f*** that is) possibly be of any relevance?
The results of course are disappointing, but it is true that wording of a polling question is all-important — so much so that I believe it virtually impossible to do actual scientific polling… impossible to construct truly objectively-worded questions that carry the identical meaning for all respondents. So, interesting (and polls are always fun to play with), but probably more sound and fury than any real significance, except to say once again there’s a lot of scientific illiteracy out there.
There are many reasons why people would answer “no” to this question. It might be because racial bias makes them deny the association, it might be that their religious beliefs make them reject the fact that the Earth is more than 6000 years old, it might just be pure ignorance of the theory of plate tectonics, it might even be because they like spoiling surveys by giving the wrong answer. I would answer “no” for the (admittedly pedantic) reason that I don’t think it is correct to say that Pangaea was a combination of future continents just because it was made from the rocks that form those continents now.
With all those different influences on the survey answers, I don’t see how anyone could expect to draw a meaningful conclusion from the result. Even the fairly weak conclusion proposed by Sean.
My rather unscientific survey of this comment thread suggests that most people do not understand survey procedure. The sample size was not small, it was sufficient for a 2% margin of error. The fact that people might have multiple reasons for answering “no” doesn’t mean you can’t draw meaningful conclusions from the result- for example, if people enjoy spoiling surveys by giving the wrong answer, that would only create a racial disparity in the final outcome if white people spoil surveys by giving the wrong answer more frequently than do members of other races, and I doubt there is any evidence to support that assumption. The point of the survey wasn’t to objectively measure how many people understand plate tectonics, it was to measure how different types of people respond to a particular question, and to see if different types of people would in fact respond differently, and if so how. I could go on here, but I won’t. The survey is what it is.
To be honest, I’d rather not have Daily Kos polls dissected in CV.com…..
Now careful with that axe, Eugene (as you seem to have one to grind).
Perhaps we might want to take into account another stark reality of the population in the US, a stunning percentage stay within 250 miles of their homes for their lives. Only 12% have passports, which restricts international travel to a number roughly equal to the percent that graduate universities. More than 1/3 never extend their lives past 100 miles from home. For nearly 25 years i lived in the Sierra Nevada and knew whole families who hadn’t traveled, either north nor south, along the range (swaths of kids never visiting Yosemite or Lake Tahoe yet lived less than 50 miles away). Without some sense of the geologic diversity, and little TV programming that links aspects of continental chunks to one another, many US citizens prefer to believe some deity threw it all together as is.
This certainly is a loaded question with implications relating to evolution and race. Messages of racial and scientific intolerance are spread everyday from the religious right. So, the results of the poll are not really surprising to me.
What’s sad for those advancing scientific literacy in America, is that when the facts are the clearest the pundits are at their loudest. When fundamentalists cannot dismiss facts, they simply dismiss science as a whole, which is in many ways more damaging to science education.
I think it’s important that scientists don’t start shouting like those on a right. While that works when you’re preaching messages of intolerance, it certainly won’t work for education. To me this is a transition period, in which the focus of scientific literacy should be youth. Science writers and educators have to maintain a collected approach, despite the shouts of scientific intolerance. With time, those voices and those listeners will die out, and scientific attitudes will further advance.
Until then we must stay focused on science education from the bottom up, starting by teaching scientific principles and most importantly, by teaching the structure of the scientific community and the scientific process at a young age. We must instill in young Americans a respect for the field of science, rather than teaching just facts and conclusions. Scientific ideas may change, but acceptance of science in the community requires Americans to understand how scientific ideas change and why, and that what you learn in 4th grade science may no longer be true.
I would like to submit an0ther possibility for your consideration. I am college educated and well past fifty but I was very dumbstruck by this theory, that was in plane sight, but never considered until recently. Or it is known and the implications are too frightening. I hope this is not considered off topic. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7kL7qDeI05U . Maybe you who disallow it will still be curious.
@40 Spyder : I don’t know where you get the idea that I have an axe to grind, but okay.
Also, saying that people don’t travel a lot hence they are more susceptible to a creationist belief is a false premise. Most people in China never leave their country, but they don’t seem to follow a creationist belief system.
Intriguing poll and analyses (by both the author and commenters). I think there are many possible conclusions, many of which are worthy of further, more detailed polling and analysis. As a U.S. citizen, I believe the average citizen here suffers from a myopia when it comes to the country, let alone the world. As a black American cultural observer, I think willingness to link Western Europe to Africa in any way shape form or fashion other than colonially is probably a decent proxy for ‘liberal’ worldviews, and to a lesser extent, liberal politics. As someone who’s trained in geoscience, the overall numbers are saddening as plate tectonic theory is probably one of THE best supported of all the major, core scientific theories currently taught. As such, it’s not a matter of belief…but the way it’s discussed clearly highlights a general misunderstanding of what a theory is.
Eugene,
He probably just couldn’t pass up an opportunity to use that line đ
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Careful_with_That_Axe,_Eugene
Exactly. I was so startled by what students thought that they knew, when I was an Astronomy Professor, and when I taught Evolution by Natural Selection in High School Biology, and in Anatomy & Physiology… It is a FACT that the continents “drift” and that the cosmos expands (regardless of what Theory you hold). Darwin emphasized that his 2 big contributions were to Evolution as a FACT and, independent, that Evolution is a THEORY. The intentionally ignorant do not grasp the word “theory” as used in Science.
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At the risk of sounding silly, what would have been a better way to word the question? I can see how the word “belief” might muck things up a little. I could also see how specifically saying “North America” over just “America” would have been better. But isn’t belief a necessary part of scientific literacy? For example, most of those polled probably know that “scientists” claim that the Americas and Africa were once joined together in Pangaea, but if they don’t “believe” that, what difference does it make? Wouldn’t the important thing to know not be whether the average American is aware of various scientific claims, but rather if they “believe” it? I realize any rewording of the question can be picked apart by someone for bias, but I’m honestly not sure how it “should” have been worded.
Can we drop the facade for once—we get it sean—you want to make fun of those inbred red state white trash yokels that you resent so much for not holding your political positions. Perhaps we can ask Holdren about a large scale sterilization program.
Any scientist worth his salt would have asked why the categories weren’t divided up by education level as well. High School Grads/GED recipients who barely spent a day or two on continental drift or plate tectonics clearly should constitute a interesting distinguishable sample from college grads or advanced degree recipients.
49. hyper38 Says:
August 12th, 2009 at 8:07 am
Any scientist worth his salt would have asked why the categories werenât divided up by education level as well. High School Grads/GED recipients who barely spent a day or two on continental drift or plate tectonics clearly should constitute a interesting distinguishable sample from college grads or advanced degree recipients.
Plate tectonics is something every student should learn in elementary school science. It’s not a difficult concept. And since 87% of Americans have graduated high school and well over 90% have at least an 8th grade education, that means 9 in 10 Americans have no excuse for not knowing that the continents were joined.
Except, of course, for willful ignorance.