Guest Post: Tom Banks on Probability and Quantum Mechanics

The lure of blogging is strong. Having guest-posted about problems with eternal inflation, Tom Banks couldn’t resist coming back for more punishment. Here he tackles a venerable problem: the interpretation of quantum mechanics. Tom argues that the measurement problem in QM becomes a lot easier to understand once we appreciate that even classical mechanics allows for non-commuting observables. In that sense, quantum mechanics is “inevitable”; it’s actually classical physics that is somewhat unusual. If we just take QM seriously as a theory that predicts the probability of different measurement outcomes, all is well.

Tom’s last post was “technical” in the sense that it dug deeply into speculative ideas at the cutting edge of research. This one is technical in a different sense: the concepts are presented at a level that second-year undergraduate physics majors should have no trouble following, but there are explicit equations that might make it rough going for anyone without at least that much background. The translation from LaTeX to WordPress is a bit kludgy; here is a more elegant-looking pdf version if you’d prefer to read that.

—————————————-

Rabbi Eliezer ben Yaakov of Nahariya said in the 6th century, “He who has not said three things to his students, has not conveyed the true essence of quantum mechanics. And these are Probability, Intrinsic Probability, and Peculiar Probability”.

Probability first entered the teachings of men through the work of that dissolute gambler Pascal, who was willing to make a bet on his salvation. It was a way of quantifying our risk of uncertainty. Implicit in Pascal’s thinking, and all who came after him was the idea that there was a certainty, even a predictability, but that we fallible humans may not always have enough data to make the correct predictions. This implicit assumption is completely unnecessary and the mathematical theory of probability makes use of it only through one crucial assumption, which turns out to be wrong in principle but right in practice for many actual events in the real world.

For simplicity, assume that there are only a finite number of things that one can measure, in order to avoid too much math. List the possible measurements as a sequence

A = \left( \begin{array}{ccc} a_1 & \ldots & a_N\end{array} \right).
The aN are the quantities being measured and each could have a finite number of values. Then a probability distribution assigns a number P(A) between zero and one to each possible outcome. The sum of the numbers has to add up to one. The so called frequentist interpretation of these numbers is that if we did the same measurement a large number of times, then the fraction of times or frequency with which we’d find a particular result would approach the probability of that result in the limit of an infinite number of trials. It is mathematically rigorous, but only a fantasy in the real world, where we have no idea whether we have an infinite amount of time to do the experiments. The other interpretation, often called Bayesian, is that probability gives a best guess at what the answer will be in any given trial. It tells you how to bet. This is how the concept is used by most working scientists. You do a few experiments and see how the finite distribution of results compares to the probabilities, and then assign a confidence level to the conclusion that a particular theory of the data is correct. Even in flipping a completely fair coin, it’s possible to get a million heads in a row. If that happens, you’re pretty sure the coin is weighted but you can’t know for sure.

Physical theories are often couched in the form of equations for the time evolution of the probability distribution, even in classical physics. One introduces “random forces” into Newton’s equations to “approximate the effect of the deterministic motion of parts of the system we don’t observe”. The classic example is the Brownian motion of particles we see under the microscopic, where we think of the random forces in the equations as coming from collisions with the atoms in the fluid in which the particles are suspended. However, there’s no a priori reason why these equations couldn’t be the fundamental laws of nature. Determinism is a philosophical stance, an hypothesis about the way the world works, which has to be subjected to experiment just like anything else. Anyone who’s listened to a geiger counter will recognize that the microscopic process of decay of radioactive nuclei doesn’t seem very deterministic.

The place where the deterministic hypothesis and the laws of classical logic are put into the theory of probability is through the rule for combining probabilities of independent alternatives. A classic example is shooting particles through a pair of slits. One says, “the particle had to go through slit A or slit B and the probabilities are independent of each other, so,

P(A {\rm \ or} B ) = P(A) + P(B).
It seems so obvious, but it’s wrong, as we’ll see below. The probability sum rule, as the previous equation is called, allows us to define conditional probabilities. This is best understood through the example of hurricane Katrina. The equations used by weather forecasters are probabilistic in nature. Long before Katrina made landfall, they predicted a probability that it would hit either New Orleans or Galveston. These are, more or less, mutually exclusive alternatives. Because these weather probabilities, at least approximately, obey the sum rule, we can conclude that the prediction for what happens after we make the observation of people suffering in the Superdome, doesn’t depend on the fact that Katrina could have hit Galveston. That is, that observation allows us to set the probability that it could have hit Galveston to zero, and re-scale all other probabilities by a common factor so that the probability of hitting New Orleans was one.

Note that if we think of the probability function P(x,t) for the hurricane to hit a point x and time t to be a physical field, then this procedure seems non-local or a-causal. The field changes instantaneously to zero at Galveston as soon as we make a measurement in New Orleans. Furthermore, our procedure “violates the weather equations”. Weather evolution seems to have two kinds of dynamics. The deterministic, local, evolution of P(x,t) given by the equation, and the causality violating projection of the probability of Galveston to zero and rescaling of the probability of New Orleans to one, which is mysteriously caused by the measurement process. Recognizing P to be a probability, rather than a physical field, shows that these objections are silly.

Nothing in this discussion depends on whether we assume the weather equations are the fundamental laws of physics of an intrinsically uncertain world, or come from neglecting certain unmeasured degrees of freedom in a completely deterministic system.

The essence of QM is that it forces us to take an intrinsically probabilistic view of the world, and that it does so by discovering an unavoidable probability theory underlying the mathematics of classical logic. In order to describe this in the simplest possible way, I want to follow Feynman and ask you to think about a single ammonia molecule, NH3. A classical picture of this molecule is a pyramid with the nitrogen at the apex and the three hydrogens forming an equilateral triangle at the base. Let’s imagine a situation in which the only relevant measurement we could make was whether the pyramid was pointing up or down along the z axis. We can ask one question Q, “Is the pyramid pointing up?” and the molecule has two states in which the answer is either yes or no. Following Boole, we can assign these two states the numerical values 1 and 0 for Q, and then the “contrary question” 1 − Q has the opposite truth values. Boole showed that all of the rules of classical logic could be encoded in an algebra of independent questions, satisfying

Q_i Q_j = \delta_{ij} Q_j ,
where the Kronecker symbol δij = 1 if i = j and 0 otherwise. i,j run from 1 to N, the number of independent questions. We also have ∑Qi = 1, meaning that one and only one of the questions has the answer yes in any state of the system. Our ammonia molecule has only two independent questions, Q and 1 − Q. Let me also define sz = 2Q − 1 = ±1, in the two different states. Computer aficionadas will recognize our two question system as a bit.

We can relate this discussion of logic to our discussion of probability of measurements by introducing observables A = ∑ai Qi , where the ai are real numbers, specifying the value of some measurable quantity in the state where only Qi has the answer yes. A probability distribution is then just a special case ρ = ∑pi Qi, where pi is non-negative for each i and ∑pi = 1.

Restricting attention to our ammonia molecule, we denote the two states as | ±z 〉 and summarize the algebra of questions by the equation

s_z | \pm_z \rangle = \pm | \pm_z \rangle .
We say that ” the operator sz acting on the states | ±z 〉 just multiplies them by (the appropriate ) number”. Similarly, if A = a+ Q + a (1 − Q) then

A | \pm_z \rangle = a_{\pm} | \pm_z \rangle .
The expected value of the observable An in the probability distribution ρ is

\rho_+ a_+^n + \rho_- a_-^n = {\rm Tr} \rho A^n .
In the last equation we have used the fact that all of our “operators” can be thought of as two by two matrices acting on a two dimensional space of vectors whose basis elements are |±z 〉. The matrices can be multiplied by the usual rules and the trace of a matrix is just the sum of its diagonal elements. Our matrices are

s_z = \left( \begin{array}{ccc} 1 & 0 \cr 0 & -1 \end{array} \right),
A = \left( \begin{array}{ccc} a_+ & 0 \cr 0 & a_- \end{array} \right),
rho = \left( \begin{array}{ccc} \rho_+ & 0 \cr 0 & \rho_- \end{array} \right),
Q = \left( \begin{array}{ccc} 1 & 0 \cr 0 & 0\end{array} \right).
They’re all diagonal, so it’s easy to multiply them.

So far all we’ve done is rewrite the simple logic of a single bit as a complicated set of matrix equations, but consider the operation of flipping the orientation of the molecule, which for nefarious purposes we’ll call sx,

s_x | \pm \rangle = | \mp \rangle .
This has matrix

s_x = \left( \begin{array}{ccc} 0 & 1 \cr 1 & 0\end{array} \right).
Note that sz2 = sx2 = 1, and sx sz = − sz sx = − i sy , where the last equality is just a definition. This definition implies that sy sa = − sa sy, for a = x or a = z, and it follows that sy2 = 1. You can verify these equations by using matrix multiplication, or by thinking about how the various operations operate on the states (which I think is easier). Now consider for example the quantity B ≡ bx sx + bz sz . Then B2 = bx2 + bz2 , which suggests that B is a quantity which takes on the possible values ±√{b+2 + b2}. We can calculate

{\rm Tr} \rho B^n ,
for any choice of probability distribution. If n = 2k it’s just

(b_x^2 + b_z^2)^k ,
whereas if n = 2k + 1 it’s

(b_x^2 + b_z^2)^k (p_+ b_z - p_- b_z) .
This is exactly the same result we would get if we said that there was a probability P+ (B) for B to take on the value √{bz2 + bx2} and probability P (B) = 1 − P+ (B), to take on the opposite value, if we choose

P_+(B)\equiv \displaystyle{\frac{1}{2} \left(1 + \frac{(p_+ - p_-)b_z}{\sqrt{b_z^2 + b_x^2}}\right)}.
The most remarkable thing about this formula is that even when we know the answer to Q with certainty (p+ = 1 or 0), B is still uncertain.

We can repeat this exercise with any linear combination bx sx + by sy + bz sz. We find that in general, if we force one linear combination to be known with certainty, that all linear combinations where the vector (cx, cy, cz) is not parallel to (bx , by, bz) are uncertain. This is the same as the condition guaranteeing that the two linear combinations commute as matrices.

Pursuing the mathematics of this further would lead us into the realm of eigenvalues of Hermitian matrices, complete ortho-normal bases and other esoterica. But the main point to remember is that any system we can think about in terms of classical logic inevitably contains in it an infinite set of variables in addition to the ones we initially thought about as the maximum set of things we thought could be measured. When our original variables are known with certainty, these other variables are uncertain but the mathematics gives us completely determined formulas for their probability distributions.

Another disturbing fact about the mathematical probability theory for non-compatible observables that we’ve discovered, is that it does NOT satisfy the probability sum rule. This is because, once we start thinking about incompatible observables, the notion of either this or that is not well defined. In fact we’ve seen that when we know “definitely for sure” that sz is 1, the probability for B to take on its positive value could be any number between zero and one, depending on the ratio of bz and bx.

Thus QM contains questions that are neither independent nor dependent and the probability sum rule P(sz or B ) = P(sz) + P(B) does not make sense because the word or is undefined for non-commuting operators. As a consequence we cannot apply the conditional probability rule to general QM probability predictions. This appears to cause a problem when we make a measurement that seems to give a definite answer. We’ll explain below that the issue here is the meaning of the word measurement. It means the interaction of the system with macroscopic objects containing many atoms. One can show that conditional probability is a sensible notion, with incredible accuracy, for such objects, and this means that we can interpret QM for such objects as if it were a classical probability theory. The famous “collapse of the wave function” is nothing more than an application of the rules of conditional probability, to macroscopic objects, for which they apply.

The double slit experiment famously discussed in the first chapter of Feynman’s lectures on quantum mechanics, is another example of the failure of the probability sum rule. The question of which slit the particle goes through is one of two alternative histories. In Newton’s equations, a history is determined by an initial position and velocity, but Heisenberg’s famous uncertainty relation is simply the statement that position and velocity are incompatible observables, which don’t commute as matrices, just like sz and sx. So the statement that either one history or another happened does not make sense, because the two histories interfere.

Before leaving our little ammonia molecule, I want to tell you about one more remarkable fact, which has no bearing on the rest of the discussion, but shows the remarkable power of quantum mechanics. Way back at the top of this post, you could have asked me, “what if I wanted to orient the ammonia along the x axis or some other direction”. The answer is that the operator nx sx + ny sy + nz sz, where (nx , ny, nz) is a unit vector, has definite values in precisely those states where the molecule is oriented along this unit vector. The whole quantum formalism of a single bit, is invariant under 3 dimensional rotations. And who would have ever thought of that? (Pauli, that’s who).

The fact that QM was implicit in classical physics was realized a few years after the invention of QM, in the 1930s, by Koopman. Koopman formulated ordinary classical mechanics as a special case of quantum mechanics, and in doing so introduced a whole set of new observables, which do not commute with the (commuting) position and momentum of a particle and are uncertain when the particle’s position and momentum are definitely known. The laws of classical mechanics give rise to equations for the probability distributions for all these other observables. So quantum mechanics is inescapable. The only question is whether nature is described by an evolution equation which leaves a certain complete set of observables certain for all time, and what those observables are in terms of things we actually measure. The answer is that ordinary positions and momenta are NOT simultaneously determined with certainty.

Which raises the question of why it took us so long to notice this, and why it’s so hard for us to think about and accept. The answers to these questions also resolve “the problem of quantum measurement theory”. The answer lies essentially in the definition of a macroscopic object. First of all it means something containing a large number N of microscopic constituents. Let me call them atoms, because that’s what’s relevant for most everyday objects. For even a very tiny piece of matter weighing about a thousandth of a gram, the number N  ∼ 1020. There are a few quantum states of the system per atom, let’s say 10 to keep the numbers round. So the system has 101020 states. Now consider the motion of the center of mass of the system. The mass of the system is proportional to N, so Heisenberg’s uncertainty relation tells us that the mutual uncertainty of the position and velocity of the system is of order [1/N]. Most textbooks stop at this point and say this is small and so the center of mass behaves in a classical manner to a good approximation.

In fact, this misses the central point, which is that under most conditions, the system has of order 10N different states, all of which have the same center of mass position and velocity (within the prescribed uncertainty). Furthermore the internal state of the system is changing rapidly on the time scale of the center of mass motion. When we compute the quantum interference terms between two approximately classical states of the center of mass coordinate, we have to take into account that the internal time evolution for those two states is likely to be completely different. The chance that it’s the same is roughly 10−N, the chance that two states picked at random from the huge collection, will be the same. It’s fairly simple to show that the quantum interference terms, which violate the classical probability sum rule for the probabilities of different classical trajectories, are of order 10−N. This means that even if we could see the [1/N] effects of uncertainty in the classical trajectory, we could model them by ordinary classical statistical mechanics, up to corrections of order 10−N.

It’s pretty hard to comprehend how small a number this is. As a decimal, it’s a decimal point followed by 100 billion billion zeros and then a one. The current age of the universe is less than a billion billion seconds. So if you wrote one zero every hundredth of a second you couldn’t write this number in the entire age of the universe. More relevant is the fact that in order to observe the quantum interference effects on the center of mass motion, we would have to do an experiment over a time period of order 10N. I haven’t written the units of time. The smallest unit of time is defined by Newton’s constant, Planck’s constant and the speed of light. It’s 10− 44 seconds. The age of the universe is about 1061 of these Planck units. The difference between measuring the time in Planck times or ages of the universe is a shift from N = 1020 to N = 1020 − 60, and is completely in the noise of these estimates. Moreover, the quantum interference experiment we’re proposing would have to keep the system completely isolated from the rest of the universe for these incredible lengths of time. Any coupling to the outside effectively increases the size of N by huge amounts.

Thus, for all purposes, even those of principle, we can treat quantum probabilities for even mildly macroscopic variables, as if they were classical, and apply the rules of conditional probability. This is all we are doing when we “collapse the wave function” in a way that seems (to the untutored) to violate causality and the Schrodinger equation. The general line of reasoning outlined above is called the theory of decoherence. All physicists find it acceptable as an explanation of the reason for the practical success of classical mechanics for macroscopic objects. Some physicists find it inadequate as an explanation of the philosophical “paradoxes” of QM. I believe this is mostly due to their desire to avoid the notion of intrinsic probability, and attribute physical reality to the Schrodinger wave function. Curiously many of these people think that they are following in the footsteps of Einstein’s objections to QM. I am not a historian of science but my cursory reading of the evidence suggests that Einstein understood completely that there were no paradoxes in QM if the wave function was thought of merely as a device for computing probability. He objected to the contention of some in the Copehagen crowd that the wave function was real and satisfied a deterministic equation and tried to show that that interpretation violated the principles of causality. It does, but the statistical treatment is the right one. Einstein was wrong only in insisting that God doesn’t play dice.

Once we have understood these general arguments, both quantum measurement theory and our intuitive unease with QM are clarified. A measurement in QM is, as first proposed by von Neumann, simply the correlation of some microscopic observable, like the orientation of an ammonia molecule, with a macro-observable like a pointer on a dial. This can easily be achieved by normal unitary evolution. Once this correlation is made, quantum interference effects in further observation of the dial are exponentially suppressed, we can use the conditional probability rule, and all the mystery is removed.

It’s even easier to understand why humans don’t “get” QM. Our brains evolved according to selection pressures that involved only macroscopic objects like fruit, tigers and trees. We didn’t have to develop neural circuitry that had an intuitive feel for quantum interference phenomena, because there was no evolutionary advantage to doing so. Freeman Dyson once said that the book of the world might be written in Jabberwocky, a language that human beings were incapable of understanding. QM is not as bad as that. We CAN understand the language if we’re willing to do the math, and if we’re willing to put aside our intuitions about how the world must be, in the same way that we understand that our intuitions about how velocities add are only an approximation to the correct rules given by the Lorentz group. QM is worse, I think, because it says that logic, which our minds grasp as the basic, correct formulation of rules of thought, is wrong. This is why I’ve emphasized that once you formulate logic mathematically, QM is an obvious and inevitable consequence. Systems that obey the rules of ordinary logic are special QM systems where a particular choice among the infinite number of complementary QM observables remains sharp for all times, and we insist that those are the only variables we can measure. Viewed in this way, classical physics looks like a sleazy way of dodging the general rules. It achieves a more profound status only because it also emerges as an exponentially good approximation to the behavior of systems with a large number of constituents.

To summarize: All of the so-called non-locality and philosophical mystery of QM is really shared with any probabilistic system of equations and collapse of the wave function is nothing more than application of the conventional rule of conditional probabilities. It is a mistake to think of the wave function as a physical field, like the electromagnetic field. The peculiarity of QM lies in the fact that QM probabilities are intrinsic and not attributable to insufficiently precise measurement, and the fact that they do not obey the law of conditional probabilities. That law is based on the classical logical postulate of the law of the excluded middle. If something is definitely true, then all other independent questions are definitely false. We’ve seen that the mathematical framework for classical logic shows this principle to be erroneous. Even when we’ve specified the state of a system completely, by answering yes or no to every possible question in a compatible set, there are an infinite number of other questions one can ask of the same system, whose answer is only known probabilistically. The formalism predicts a very definite probability distribution for all of these other questions.

Many colleagues who understand everything I’ve said at least as well as I do, are still uncomfortable with the use of probability in fundamental equations. As far as I can tell, this unease comes from two different sources. The first is that the notion of “expectation” seems to imply an expecter, and most physicists are reluctant to put intelligent life forms into the definition of the basic laws of physics. We think of life as an emergent phenomenon, which can’t exist at the level of the microscopic equations. Certainly, our current picture of the very early universe precludes the existence of any form of organized life at that time, simply from considerations of thermodynamic equilibrium.

The frequentist approach to probability is an attempt to get around this. However, its insistence on infinite limits makes it vulnerable to the question about what one concludes about a coin that’s come up heads a million times. We know that’s a possible outcome even if the coin and the flipper are completely honest. Modern experimental physics deals with this problem every day both for intrinsically QM probabilities and those that arise from ordinary random and systematic fluctuations in the detector. The solution is not to claim that any result of measurement is definitely conclusive, but merely to assign a confidence level to each result. Human beings decide when the confidence level is high enough that we “believe” the result, and we keep an open mind about the possibility of coming to a different conclusion with more work. It may not be completely satisfactory from a philosophical point of view, but it seems to work pretty well.

The other kind of professional dissatisfaction with probability is, I think, rooted in Einstein’s prejudice that God doesn’t play dice. With all due respect, I think this is just a prejudice. In the 18th century, certain theoretical physicists conceived the idea that one could, in principle, measure everything there was to know about the universe at some fixed time, and then predict the future. This was wild hubris. Why should it be true? It’s remarkable that this idea worked as well as it did. When certain phenomena appeared to be random, we attributed that to the failure to make measurements that were complete and precise enough at the initial time. This led to the development of statistical mechanics, which was also wildly successful. Nonetheless, there was no real verification of the Laplacian principle of complete predictability. Indeed, when one enquires into the basic physics behind much of classical statistical mechanics one finds that some of the randomness invoked in that theory has a quantum mechanical origin. It arises after all from the motion of individual atoms. It’s no surprise that the first hints that classical mechanics was wrong came from failures of classical statistical mechanics like the Gibbs paradox of the entropy of mixing, and the black body radiation laws.

It seems to me that the introduction of basic randomness into the equations of physics is philosophically unobjectionable, especially once one has understood the inevitability of QM. And to those who find it objectionable all I can say is “It is what it is”. There isn’t anymore. All one must do is account for the successes of the apparently deterministic formalism of classical mechanics when applied to macroscopic bodies, and the theory of decoherence supplies that account.

Perhaps the most important lesson for physicists in all of this is not to mistake our equations for the world. Our equations are an algorithm for making predictions about the world and it turns out that those predictions can only be statistical. That this is so is demonstrated by the simple observation of a
Geiger counter and by the demonstration by Bell and others that the statistical predictions of QM cannot be reproduced by a more classical statistical theory with hidden variables, unless we allow for grossly non-local interactions. Some investigators into the foundations of QM have concluded that we should expect to find evidence for this non-locality, or that QM has to be modified in some fundamental way. I think the evidence all goes in the other direction: QM is exactly correct and inevitable and “there are more things in heaven and earth than are conceived of in our naive classical philosophy”. Of course, Hamlet was talking about ghosts…

93 Comments

93 thoughts on “Guest Post: Tom Banks on Probability and Quantum Mechanics”

  1. Tim, instead of directly answering all your questions, let me highlight two points which I think are important to clarify how our perspectives differ.

    On the question of completeness: my personal answer would be that the wavefunction is as complete a description of a system as can possibly exist (assuming that conventional QM is correct). It is not complete in the sense of determining the results of every experiment — such a level of determinism is only possible in classical mechanics. But it does tell you the probability distribution for any potential measurement, which is all you can hope for. So, again my basic doubt is whether or not anything you may call “clear physical theory” or “realism” is necessarily classical.

    I think it is also interesting to highlight the differences in attitude towards mathematics. I agree that results of experiments are just one tool to infer some representation of reality which is consistent and detailed enough to be called an “explanation”. But, in my mind, the best formulation of such explanations is in terms of a formal system, a language both general and precise enough to do justice to that term. So formal language is not just a tool, it is the essence of what I’d call an explanation, and natural language translations are usually just a faint shadow of the real thing.

  2. As for set theory, one example could be Russell’s paradox, the question regarding the set of all sets that do not contain themselves as an element. Does it contain itself as an element? The response to this paradox was to formalize “naive” set theory (naive because informal). In the formalized system the problem is not resolved by the question receiving a new insightful answer, it is resolved because the question is discarded as one that cannot be properly formulated within the system. One potential response to the questions of existence and completeness of states in QM is that they are resolved similarly, they are pseudo-questions that cannot be formulated precisely in the relevant formal system.

  3. Michael Kagalenko

    When in #64 Tim Maudlin states
    > But we would like it that the cat ending up alive or dead, which it does, be explicated in
    > terms of what the particles in the cat do, since the cat is nothing more than the sum of its
    > particles.

    And especially:

    > If you say that the individual particles do not end up anywhere in particular, for
    > example, then neither does the cat.

    – That seems to me an attempt to smuggle in classical physics. In QM, an object is more than aggregation of its parts, and it can be in definite state, when none of its constituent parts are.

    (disclaimer – I am not a practicing physicist, and if I am misunderstanding something, I hope that I will be corrected)

    Also, thanks to Tom Banks for enlightening post and discussion.

  4. Pingback: Mitsubishi Evo X Modified Is Is Cool Choice Of The Youngsters | Info About Cars

  5. Moshe # 77:

    No, in ZFC there just is no “set of all sets”, and so one can’t get a “set of all sets that Phi” by the comprehension axiom. That is, according to the theory, there just is no object of the sort you are asking about. If one accepts ZFC as the correct understanding of set theory, then there is a clear account of why no such object exists. And seeing why there is no such thing is perfectly insightful.

    You seem to be suggesting that “Is the wavefunction complete?” is similarly a question that employs some suspect terminology. So: which terminology? Certainly, the claim that collapse of the wavefunction is mere conditionalization and not a physical change, as Banks insists, seem to imply that the wavefunction is not complete. Banks certainly thinks you can talk about the mathematical wavefunction, so that’s not the issue. Is the term “complete” obscure? I gave a definition above…any problem with it?

  6. Some naive questions –
    1. How does a quantum field theory, with its infinite degrees of freedom, avoid decohering rapidly?

    2. Maxwell’s equations with the classical E and B fields arise when we have a large number of photons. What is the role of decoherence in our measurements of these fields? How do I understand a laser beam from the purely instrumentalist point of view?

  7. Pingback: Guest Post: David Wallace on the Physicality of the Quantum State | Cosmic Variance | Theoretical Physics

  8. Tim, we now seem to agree on the analogy. The suspect terminology is “real”, what does it mean? Can you define it in ways that do not presume the world to be classical?

    As for completeness, it seems to me that what you call a complete description would assign probabilities (or even truth values) to definite statements about the system, even when it is not measured. This is (unlike naive set theory) perfectly self-consistent, it just doesn’t seem consistent with QM, for the reasons Tom so clearly discusses. So, again I am wondering if the project of getting a good interpretation is distinct from the project of recasting QM in classical terms.

  9. Tim, I appreciate the time you are taking to communicate . If at any point you find this process too time consuming (work week is about to start), perhaps you can direct me to some literature. I think by now it might be clear what I am worried about, which is probably not an unusual attitude among physicists, so perhaps there is some recent written resource somewhere. Reading has probably higher rate of information transfer than blog comments.

  10. It is no doubt presumptuous to comment, especially at so late a date. Still,
    I have no idea what the time evolution of a probability distribution could possibly mean. Doesn’t the QM formalism incorporates a Hilbert space, which is not space as we understand it, nor does the time reversibility of the formalism permit us to understand what a probability distribution is evolving through. Maybe interpreting QM as referring to a spacetime continuum is in itself adding additional postulates that complete the system?

    I don’t see how Prof. Banks’ blog really addresses the distinction between macroscopic and microscopic. Aren’t phenomena like lasers and superconductivity quantum phenomena? They seem macroscopic to me. Nor do I see how the universe could decohere from its quantum state early in its cosmological history. Decoherence seems to assume some sort of classical objects or an automatic disentanglement (avoiding the dread word “collapse”.) And how does the QM formalism, with its time reversibility, ever find a unique past, something that would presumably be as impossible as the old-fashioned LaPlace style determined future?

    I’m sorry to say thinking science is an algorithm for making predictions seems obtuse. I do wonder why Prof. Banks expects taxpayers to pay for physicists to play with expensive equipment if they are merely refining their predictions for digital readouts.

  11. Dear Sean

    I very much enjoyed the recent blogs by Tom Banks on Eternal Inflation and Quantum Theory. Based on my understanding of what he has to say, and the reaction of the other readers, I’ve concluded that he is suggesting a radical departure in the way we understand reality. It seems the way he understands reality is inherent in his theory of Holographic Space Time. As I understand this theory, it is an observer-centric way of understanding the physical world.

    I’d like to try to simplify his ideas and ask for his reaction (maybe in another blog) where he can either further comment on these naïve ideas, or shoot them down as he wishes. I’d like to take the idea of an observer-centric world to its logical conclusion. The controversial aspect of this idea is that the observer is no longer identified with the nature of anything that the observer can observe in that world. For the purpose of scientific hypothesis, let’s just assume the observer exists as pure consciousness, whatever that means.

    The first thing is to define what we mean by an observer-centric world. It seems to me that Tom’s theory of Holographic Space Time answers this question. If we follow the line of reasoning of the equivalence principle, we can say the observer is present at a point of view, and that point of view follows a time-like trajectory in space-time. As is well known, if that trajectory through space-time defines an accelerating frame of reference, that observer always observes an event horizon, which is as far as that observer can see things in space due to the constancy of the speed of light. Everything beyond the event horizon is hidden from the observer. Along the lines of the holographic principle, that event horizon acts like a holographic viewing screen. Due to quantum uncertainty (in the sense of QFT), as virtual particle-antiparticle pairs spontaneously arise in empty space, some of the virtual pairs appear to separate at the horizon, which is the nature of Hawking radiation. In the sense of the holographic principle, separation of virtual pairs at the horizon is equivalent to encoding of information on the horizon. The horizon acts like a holographic viewing screen that projects observable images to the point of view of the observer. We can think of that point of view as a focal point of perception, along the lines of the projection and focusing theorems discussed by Bousso. Each fundamental pixel on the viewing screen encodes a quantized bit of information. I’ll leave it to Tom to explain exactly how those bits of information are encoded on the screen. The important point is the images that are projected from the screen are some form of coherently organized information. In some sense, coherent organization of information is the only reason why those forms are self-replicated in form over a sequence of events. Coherent organization has something to do with why the viewing screen is holographic in nature, and why those forms appear three dimensional. In this observer-centric view of reality, every viewing screen defines a world that is observed from the point of view of an observer. That world only arises because an event horizon arises from the point of view of an observer that is in an accelerating frame of reference. The event horizon acts like a holographic viewing screen that displays an entire world.

    In this observer-centric world, the viewing screen defines a state of information, with one fundamental quantized bit of information encoded per fundamental pixel on the screen. That state of information defines an entire world that only arises from the point of view of the observer of that world. The viewing screen displays an entire world. That world only appears from the point of view of the observer. That state of information is defined by the way bits of information are encoded on the pixels. In the sense of quantum theory, every event is a decision point where the quantum state of that world branches, due to all the different ways in which bits of information can become encoded on all the pixels of the viewing screen. Coherent organization of information allows for the development of observable forms of information, which self-replicate in form over a sequence of events, and are the nature of the observable images projected from the viewing screen to the observer at the central point of view. In the sense of an animation of images, the behaviors of those self-replicating forms are enacted over a sequence of events in the flow of energy. Thermodynamics allows us to understand the nature of that flow of energy (and the flow of time), in the sense that energy tends to flow from more ordered (lower entropy) states to less ordered (higher entropy) states.

    Every observer observes its own world from its own point of view. That world is nothing more than forms animated on a viewing screen. That world only appears three dimensional since those forms are holographic. Those forms tend to self-replicate in form over a sequence of events in the flow of energy as behaviors are enacted due to coherent organization, which is how an animation of forms is animated. The principle of equivalence helps us understand how that animation is animated. As the observer focuses its attention upon that world of form, there is an expenditure of energy. That expenditure of energy places the observer in an accelerating frame of reference, just like a rocket ship that expends energy as it accelerates through empty space. The difficult thing to wrap our minds around is there is no such thing as a rocket ship, except as an observable image that is projected from a viewing screen to a point of view. An event horizon always appears from that accelerated point of view. Every observer that expends energy is in an accelerating frame of reference, and observes an event horizon, which holographically defines the entire world of form that the observer observes. Due to quantum uncertainty, virtual pairs appear to separate at the horizon, and information is encoded on the horizon. Information is coherently organized into form, and the horizon acts as a holographic viewing screen that projects images to that point of view. That is how the observer’s world of form appears from its point of view, as it focuses its attention on those forms. There is an expenditure of energy, which places the observer in an accelerating frame of reference, and leads to the animation of that world. As the observer focuses its attention upon those forms, there is an investment of emotional energy in that animation. That investment of emotional energy animates the form of the observer’s body, which is the central form of its world. The viewing screen displays an entire world, but the central form of a particular body is always displayed on the viewing screen from the central point of view of that particular observer.

    The observer’s world, perceived from its point of view, shares information with other worlds, perceived from other points of view, since those different worlds are entangled. Each world is defined on a viewing screen that defines a state of information, but different states of information can become entangled with each other and share information, and so different forms can appear on each viewing screen in addition to the central form. The observer’s investment of emotional energy animates the form of its own body, which is the central form of its world. The investment of emotional energy from another point of view animates the central form of another world. Other forms can appear in any observer’s world since those different worlds are entangled and share information. The focus of attention of the observer of any particular world from any particular point of view leads to an investment of emotional energy in that world, which animates the central form of a body in that world. Other bodies are animated in that world due to the focus of attention of the other observers, each of which observes their own world from their own point of view. Those different worlds are animated together since those different states of information are entangled together. Collectively, those entangled states of information define consensual reality, which is not a single objective reality, but many different worlds that are each observed from their own point of view, and which only share information with each other.

    From the point of view of any particular observer, the observer’s entire world is displayed on a viewing screen that defines a state of information. That world is animated as energy flows in the sense of thermodynamics. A state of information is defined by the way information is encoded on all the pixels on the screen. In the sense of quantum theory, every event is a decision point where the quantum state branches, since information can become encoded in many different ways. The only reason we have a sense of the flow of time is due to the second law, as states of information tend to become more disordered. That increase in entropy applies to the entire world displayed on the viewing screen. Within that world, a form of information may become more ordered, and may coherently self-replicate its form, as long as the entire world becomes more disordered. A local increase in order of a particular form can only occur at the expense of some other form, which becomes more disordered. This is obviously a problem if every observer wants to survive in the form of its own body. Emotional expressions inherently are self-defensive in nature since they defend the survival (the self-replication) of the form of a particular body observed from a particular point of view. In spite of this problem, there is a natural way for the universe to evolve over time. That natural evolution takes the path of least action, which is the most likely path in the sense of quantum probability, and is the most energy efficient way for the universe to evolve. But from the point of view of any particular observer, the path of least action may not maximize the probability of survival of its own body, and so for selfish reasons, an alternative path may be taken in order to maximize the chances of body survival. Although the quantum state constantly branches, the observer of any world only observes the particular path that is taken in that world, but that path shares information with the path of other entangled worlds.

    After a careful reading of what Tom has to say about holographic cosmology and quantum theory, I just don’t see how it is possible to draw any logical conclusion except for what is described above. If Tom can shoot these ideas down and give an alternative explanation, I’d sure like to see his explanation.

  12. I don’t get it. If the wave function doesn’t exist, what does? If you say all that exists is the “results of experiments”, who is performing the experiments? And what are they experimenting on?

    Perhaps it’s a prejudice to assume the world is deterministic rather than stochastic. But you seem to be going far beyond suggesting a stochastic universe. What you describe sounds more like “a universe that consists of nothing, and that nothing is governed by laws.”

  13. Pingback: On Determinism | Cosmic Variance | Discover Magazine

  14. Pingback: Conscious Resonance » New Theory Explains How Objective Reality Emerges from the Strange Underlying Quantum World

  15. Pingback: New Theory Explains How Objective Reality Emerges from the Strange Underlying Quantum World | Квант Физик

Comments are closed.

Scroll to Top